Beer Forum

Question: why is it that there is no company out there producing liquid yeast with enough cells to pitch directly into wort without doing a starter? It seems to be well known now that while White labs and Wyeast products can technically be pitched directly, this is not at all the best option to make good beer.

Is there some limitation that prevents putting that many cells in a vial/smack pack? It seems to me that it would be a good market to get into for the benefit of those lazy brewers out there (this one included).

The answer is easy. Do you want to pay $25+ for a package of yeast?
They could (and do for breweries) sell larger packages of yeast but that would greatly decrease sales to homebrewers due to the cost. With the drop in demand, they would end up not selling to homebrewers at all.

Wayne

Bugeater wrote:The answer is easy. Do you want to pay $25+ for a package of yeast?
They could (and do for breweries) sell larger packages of yeast but that would greatly decrease sales to homebrewers due to the cost. With the drop in demand, they would end up not selling to homebrewers at all.

Wayne

Would the cost really be that much more? The cell count gained by starters is usually around double as a single vial, right? So, assuming yeast vials are priced according to cell count (I'm sure it isn't that simple), wouldn't that only double the cost, putting it at $12 USD or so?

I wouldn't say they should stop selling the current sizes, but just add a larger "no starter needed" size. This would be similar to Wyeasts smaller "propogator" packs.

Another question for those who have been in the hobby for a while: did the knowledge of proper yeast pitching rates, as currently understood, come out long after white labs and wyeast products were on the scene? I ask this because I wonder whether their cell counts were based on outdated knowledge of proper pitching rates. I don't know anything about running a yeast business, it just doesn't seem to me that it would be that much more of a cost to have a higher cell count to begin with. Perhaps it is a question of viability also?

if your willing to spend $12 on a bigger vial why not just buy 2 regular size ones and skip the starter. same price, what's the difference. you open an extra cap. that works for 1.050 beers, but if you wanted a truly pitchable vial for something as big as a maibock and you were assuming 50% viability based on aging you would be paying $60 for the pitchable vial. that's the high end extreme, i see making starters as just part of the process and i enjoy making a nice little home for my yeasts before they jump in the fire. didnt you buy my temp controller? i hope its making some good brew.

straight cash homey wrote:if your willing to spend $12 on a bigger vial why not just buy 2 regular size ones and skip the starter. same price, what's the difference. you open an extra cap. that works for 1.050 beers, but if you wanted a truly pitchable vial for something as big as a maibock and you were assuming 50% viability based on aging you would be paying $60 for the pitchable vial. that's the high end extreme, i see making starters as just part of the process and i enjoy making a nice little home for my yeasts before they jump in the fire. didnt you buy my temp controller? i hope its making some good brew.

Good point about just buying two vials. I wonder what the actual cost would be though to put it all in one.

I did indeed buy your temp controller. I have yet to use it, but I'm very excited to use it for the first time after moving. Thanks again!

brewerTristan wrote:

straight cash homey wrote:if your willing to spend $12 on a bigger vial why not just buy 2 regular size ones and skip the starter. same price, what's the difference. you open an extra cap. that works for 1.050 beers, but if you wanted a truly pitchable vial for something as big as a maibock and you were assuming 50% viability based on aging you would be paying $60 for the pitchable vial. that's the high end extreme, i see making starters as just part of the process and i enjoy making a nice little home for my yeasts before they jump in the fire. didnt you buy my temp controller? i hope its making some good brew.

Good point about just buying two vials. I wonder what the actual cost would be though to put it all in one.

The cost could be considerably less. Much of the cost of a product is in it's packaging. For example, I can buy a 2 oz. bottle of PBW for $2.50. That's $1.25 an oz. I can also buy a 4 lb bottle for $19.75. That's about 31 cents per oz. Though maybe not as dramatic, the same should hold true for yeast.

bashcraft wrote:

brewerTristan wrote:

straight cash homey wrote:if your willing to spend $12 on a bigger vial why not just buy 2 regular size ones and skip the starter. same price, what's the difference. you open an extra cap. that works for 1.050 beers, but if you wanted a truly pitchable vial for something as big as a maibock and you were assuming 50% viability based on aging you would be paying $60 for the pitchable vial. that's the high end extreme, i see making starters as just part of the process and i enjoy making a nice little home for my yeasts before they jump in the fire. didnt you buy my temp controller? i hope its making some good brew.

Good point about just buying two vials. I wonder what the actual cost would be though to put it all in one.

The cost could be considerably less. Much of the cost of a product is in it's packaging. For example, I can buy a 2 oz. bottle of PBW for $2.50. That's $1.25 an oz. I can also buy a 4 lb bottle for $19.75. That's about 31 cents per oz. Though maybe not as dramatic, the same should hold true for yeast.

Exactly what I was thinking. Plus the cost of the yeast itself is essentially nothing, since it reproduces itself. The cost must come from the time needed to produce it, lab equipment, DME, and whatever else they use. Has anyone ever visited White Labs or Wyeast? I'd be curious what running a yeast company is like.

A starter also ensures active viable yeast. You know its viable before you pitch. That is one nice thing about the smack packs, if you are not doing a starter. Nothing against White Labs, those guys are great. However my LHB shop only carries Wyeast and Dry yeast. Hey Whities can you work on that? Rochester MN.