Berliner Weisse Mystery Revealed

[Dmp]

Okay, recently I had a Berliner Weisse & fell in love with the style. Because a.) my kidney are failing me and if I keep making 9% I'm for sure going to die. and b) my roommates are drinking all my beers.....So. How do I do it?

I was thinking a traditional non-boil & add some husks to the fermentation as well as re pitching some yeast and adding yogurt...
Is this insanity or actually spot on?

[brewinhard]

I have had my best results with a no boil BW that I pitched a 2 qt lacto starter (fermented in the high 90's for @ 10 days) into the primary that was cooled to just under 100 degrees or so. I let that ferment around the high 90's for 40-46 hrs. I then quickly cooled the beer down and added my vial of german ale yeast to finish things off. When I kegged it, the sourness was mild and not was I was hoping for with pitching so much lacto. Well, 3 mos later I just took a taste and the beer is considerably more sour and becoming fairly sharply acidic (just what I wanted). I plan on letting this one age till early spring then carb up high and schwill away! Meanwhile, I have since made another 15 gallons to age til summer (5 gallons got 7# apricots, and the other 10 are with the WY Berliner blend so we will have to wait and see how that one goes).

Back to your question - I do not think all of steps are necesssary to make a good berliner. You could either sour your no boil wort with a handful of grains for several days, then pitch your ale yeast to finish things off, although the pH might be too low for your yeast to do much. In this case, try adding the grain to half the batch for souring and boil and ferment the other half regularly with ale yeast, then blend the two for packaging.
But I do think your best bet is to use a good healthy lacto starter at at least a 4:1 ratio with your yeast in the fermenter. I know that Midwest supplies still has of the WY berliner weisse blend which is mostly lacto and a small amount of german ale yeast and touch of brett. I have heard this strain takes about 6 mos to fully develop (most likely due to the brett though).

Cheers to the berliner!

-brewinhard

[Dmp]

I have had my best results with a no boil BW that I pitched a 2 qt lacto starter (fermented in the high 90's for @ 10 days) into the primary that was cooled to just under 100 degrees or so. I let that ferment around the high 90's for 40-46 hrs. I then quickly cooled the beer down and added my vial of german ale yeast to finish things off. When I kegged it, the sourness was mild and not was I was hoping for with pitching so much lacto. Well, 3 mos later I just took a taste and the beer is considerably more sour and becoming fairly sharply acidic (just what I wanted). I plan on letting this one age till early spring then carb up high and schwill away! Meanwhile, I have since made another 15 gallons to age til summer (5 gallons got 7# apricots, and the other 10 are with the WY Berliner blend so we will have to wait and see how that one goes).

Back to your question - I do not think all of steps are necesssary to make a good berliner. You could either sour your no boil wort with a handful of grains for several days, then pitch your ale yeast to finish things off, although the pH might be too low for your yeast to do much. In this case, try adding the grain to half the batch for souring and boil and ferment the other half regularly with ale yeast, then blend the two for packaging.
But I do think your best bet is to use a good healthy lacto starter at at least a 4:1 ratio with your yeast in the fermenter. I know that Midwest supplies still has of the WY berliner weisse blend which is mostly lacto and a small amount of german ale yeast and touch of brett. I have heard this strain takes about 6 mos to fully develop (most likely due to the brett though).

Cheers to the berliner!

-brewinhard

Interesting interesting, So stay away from yogurt eh? where do I get a Lacto starter at? It's easy to make on my own eh?

I think I might copy how you did you're first berliner, except also leave a lb of grain at the bottom of the fermentor for the first week...Then remove it and add the kolsch yeast.... good call???

[Bugeater]

Ray Daniels in "Designing Great Beers" made a suggestion that you just sour a low gravity wheat beer with some lactic acid at kegging or bottling. I tried it once and the results were less than impressive. I tasted it side by side with a bunch of berliner weisse's made properly. My had the right basic taste, but was way too one dimensional. Just on a dare I did enter it into a competition and won a medal. Obviously the judges didn't know crap about a berliner weisse. One even commented on how he liked the brett notes in it.

I mentioned this to Ray last year and he couldn't believe that someone (me) even tried it. I'll try almost anything once.

Wayne

[ChrisKennedy]

Why leave grain in?

Grain has lots of crap on it, not just lactobacillus. Sour mashes work well under very very controlled conditions, including the complete lack of oxygen.

For me, the best sourness for a berliner comes from a lacto fermentation, as described by brewinhard.

Sour mash also produces a fine sourness, and is much more practical/quick a method, IF you can control oxygen/temperature. Keep it warm and completely oxygen free and you can get a very nice sourness without any of the gross garbage funk. Funk is good in berliner weiss, but NOT funk as a result of a sour mash. That is just gross.

[Dmp]

Ray Daniels in "Designing Great Beers" made a suggestion that you just sour a low gravity wheat beer with some lactic acid at kegging or bottling. I tried it once and the results were less than impressive. I tasted it side by side with a bunch of berliner weisse's made properly. My had the right basic taste, but was way too one dimensional. Just on a dare I did enter it into a competition and won a medal. Obviously the judges didn't know crap about a berliner weisse. One even commented on how he liked the brett notes in it.

I mentioned this to Ray last year and he couldn't believe that someone (me) even tried it. I'll try almost anything once.

Wayne

Alright so I will stay away from using husks, unless I find a way to keep it between 90-100 and oxygen free....Where do I get my lacto at? My LHBSS suggested to use a kolsch ale yeast for primary fermentation then buying a lacto slab and adding to the 2ndary.....How do I get my lactobossillis (sp?) in my brew and when?

[ChrisKennedy]

Buy a vial/smack pack of lacto. Make a multi step starter, starting with around 500mls and going into around 2500mls. Give each step at least 4-5 days, no oxygenating.

Cool the wort down to around 98F, pitch the lacto, and let it come to room temperature. When the beer is at room temp, pitch your yeast.

[Brewchief]

Buy a vial/smack pack of lacto. Make a multi step starter, starting with around 500mls and going into around 2500mls. Give each step at least 4-5 days, no oxygenating.

Cool the wort down to around 98F, pitch the lacto, and let it come to room temperature. When the beer is at room temp, pitch your yeast.

Similar to how I do the pitching, except I hold the lacto at the high temp for a couple days before pitching the yeast starter.

I do the 3-4 day hot in lieu of the lacto starter (I feel a 1.030 beer IS a starter), with nice results as well.