Critique needed for an IIPA

[pfooti]

I'm planning on brewing Tuesday. Here's what I'm currently playing with.

Unnamed IIPA
5.5gal batch, 70% brewhouse efficiency

14# 2-row
12 oz carapils
1# special b
Mash for 60 min @ 152F, double batch sparge for a 60 minute boil

4g gypsum to the water (hetch hetchy water, this'll drop the pH a fair bit and add some sulfate for hops)

1# corn sugar in the boil

0.5 oz amarillo whole FWH
0.5 oz simcoe whole FWH
1 oz Warrior pellet @ 60 min
0.5 oz amarillo whole @ 5 min
0.5 oz simcoe whole @ 5 min

Yeast: Wyeast 1764 (pacman) from a 3L starter (decant / pitch), per mr malty calc.

1 oz amarillo dry 7 days
1 oz simcoe dry 7 days

OG: 1.080
FG: 1.015
Calculated IBU: 109 (raeger)- but that's probably an over-estimate, right? I'd read that most IBU predictions at that high of an IBU level start over-predicting.


NOTES: this is pretty dark for an IIPA, my beer software predicts 15 SRM, which is the top end of the style. Clearly, that's from the special B. I was listening to the Arrogant Bastard rebrew show today and decided I wanted to try and brew something with special B. I'm not really competing this beer, so if it falls out of style I'm not going to cry, provided it is tasty. My feeling is that the raisin/prune notes from special B will complement the citrusy nose of the amarillo/simcoe combo pretty well. I'm considering either upping the amount of special B or lengthening the boil to improve the malt presence there.

I'm mainly using amarillo/simcoe because I happen to have 2 oz of each in my freezer from an earlier experiment. I also have some pacman I just got from rebel brewer, so I want to play with that.

Everything else is negotiable- I usually use Maris Otter as a base, but I figured that'd be overboard, especially since I want to showcase the special B here. I'm also considering replacing the corn sugar with sucanat, which is my latest love. It's a very dark sugar (evaporated and unprocessed cane sugar), so there's a lot of molasses flavor which pairs well with special B (I think). I've got a brown ale in my secondary that uses sucanat, though, so I'll probably stick with the dextrose and just try to handle one special ingredient at a time.

Any advice, criticism, ideas, are welcome and frankly, needed.

[thatguy314]

I don't think you have anywhere near the amount of flavor hops needed for such a hop driven style. Pliny the elder has about 8 oz of hops for 5 gallons (really 4.5 when you think about all the hop mass in there) and all but about 2 oz are flavor or dry hop additions.

See http://beerdujour.com/Recipes/1Pliny%20 ... %20PDF.pdf

Also, if you are using a lot of special B, remember it's a very strong flavor, that may not mesh well with all hop choices. It can work for a DIPA-like beer, like arrogant bastard, but I don't think it's appropriate for a classic DIPA. I would use a lower lovibond crystal and less of it. Perhaps even consider honey malt (0.5-1#) which has a crystal-like sweetness, but is fully fermentable. Also finally, if you have any trouble at all attenuating your beers, please consider trading out 1-1.5# of 2-row for corn or table sugar, as that will help with fermentability, b ut probably won't affect the flavor very much.

[thatguy314]

I don't think you have anywhere near the amount of flavor hops needed for such a hop driven style. Pliny the elder has about 8 oz of hops for 5 gallons (really 4.5 when you think about all the hop mass in there) and all but about 2 oz are flavor or dry hop additions.

See http://beerdujour.com/Recipes/1Pliny%20 ... %20PDF.pdf

Also, if you are using a lot of special B, remember it's a very strong flavor, that may not mesh well with all hop choices. It can work for a DIPA-like beer, like arrogant bastard, but I don't think it's appropriate for a classic DIPA. I would use a lower lovibond crystal and less of it. Perhaps even consider honey malt (0.5-1#) which has a crystal-like sweetness, but is fully fermentable. Also finally, if you have any trouble at all attenuating your beers, please consider trading out 1-1.5# of 2-row for corn or table sugar, as that will help with fermentability, b ut probably won't affect the flavor very much.

[NHBrewer]

I totally agree, too much heavy crystal and no where near enough hops. Forget the hop IBU formulas when making these beers other than the bittering addition. Shoot for what you think is a high number, this depends on taste preference, but I usually aim around 60-80 IBU. Then cram as many hops as you can possibly think of for near flameout/whirlpool additions. As you add more and more hops the less of a difference an ounce makes either way. The difference between no addition and a ounce ounce addition can be huge but in a DIPA, where we are adding many more, if you add 5 or 6 ounces the flavor difference will not be as large. We approach a point of diminishing return. Also I would add quite a bit more dry hops as well. Do not be afraid, just add more hops. Listen to the Nathan Smith IPA Sunday Session, the latest Vinnie Sunday Session, or the Imperial IPA Jamil Show for further reference.

NHB

[Beertastic]

I would drop the Special B and possibly add a small amount of Victory. I also agree that you should up the late hops. You could also add some low lovibond crystal malt but not very much, maybe 5% of your total grist.

[LukeD23]

More hops would be the biggest critique from me. triple or more your flavor/aroma additions at the end of the boil, you will get some bitterness out of this addition, but to me the amount of flavor you will get from the hops will trump the bitterness achieved. At least double your dry hops. I love the Simcoe Amarrillo blend, I have used it in a couple of beers and they play well off of eachother. In my DIPA I use 6oz of dry hop and it is wonderfully complex and full in the nose, 6oz might be a bit over board but heck why not. If you want less bitterness and more flavor, make your FWH's mash hops.

Malt wise, I think go with what you've got, see how it turns out and next time tinker. It is a bit too much specialty, but if you like a sweeter imperial ipa then stick with it. If you want it to be dry then drop the special B completely. I would be interested to hear how the Pacman yeast does with a IIPA. I think it traditionally throws a good amount of Diacetyl but the low ferm. temp. would probably be a plus for the style.

Have fun making this style it is a blast!

[Travisty]

After brewing the Arrogant Bastard clone at 10% special B, I don't think your specialty malts (at around 11% of the grist) will necessarily be a bad thing. The Arrogant Bastard clone finished at about 1.014 and is very drinkable. However, I would mash lower than 152 to get as much fermentability out of the 2-row as you can otherwise I think you risk it being too full bodied. I would mash at 148. And I echo everyone else's comments about the hops. I would add a hell of a lot more late hops and even add some hops around the 30 to 20 minute time point as well. An IIPA should be overflowing with hop flavor and aroma as well as the bitterness.

IMO, as your recipe sits right now, it's closer to a barley wine than an IIPA.

[pfooti]

Awesome, thanks for all the responses. I decided to go and brew up some test batches instead at the 1 gallon scale, so I can play around with the special B, which I think will go pretty well with the amarillo/simcoe blend of hops. That way I can also crank up the amount (relative to batch size) present without gambling a lot of hop money on the product. Amarillo and Simcoe in particular are likely to be pretty spendy later in the year, so I don't want to waste things. I might gather enough runnings to do two side-by-side batches, one with the amarillo/simcoe blend and one with a columbus/centennial blend, which is another hop combination I'm fond of.

Thanks again, I'll report back.